Rover 420 Conversion , "The Hard Way".

Introduce yourself, your car, your LPG installation and/or other modifications. Post some pics and show off! Installers: post details and pics of any unusual and high-powered conversions!
Mark Jones
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:23 pm

Rover 420 Conversion , "The Hard Way".

Post by Mark Jones » Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:49 pm


dirct copy of instalation i did some months backas posted in another car forum...text refers to day by day as i did it .after engine rebuild,REMEMBER THIS HAS ALL BEEN DONE ...YOU WILL SEE ERRORS AND MISTAKES ALONG THE WAY THAT ARE LATER CORRECTED AND SHOWN


PART 0NE


LPG CONVERSION




This will be installed but not fully connected up until the car has run without problems for a week or so on petrol only.

This is going to take a lot of thinking out ...so therefor .. all ahead slow from now on.

I have to work out where to put the components ..and how to put the injector pipes into the manifold alongside the other petrol injectors....and at the same time install them so they wont effect the performance on petrol..

The system I'm putting on is called an OMVL DREAM 21 N

It is a sequential LPG injection system, that has its own ECU ....that takes the signals from the engines petrol injectors ...together with rpm and lambda probe signals and vacuum..works it all out and fires the gas injectors in phase with everything.

The actual injectors are remote with short pipes coming off them ...they then go into each branch of the inlet manifold.
The short pipes must be all the same length and as short as possible and as close to the inlet ports in the head as possible,.

The kit is supplied not for the actual car .........it is generic for all four cylinder cars.

That means a lot of thought has to be put into it ...you cant just bolt it on...........you have to modify and improvise as you go along.

So first I have to work out where to site the entry points of the small pipes into the inlet manifold.

Here you see a spare manifold that I bought off ebay (£1.99) some weeks back alongside the cars original one ...
I cleaned the spare manifold up, a while back.

If I make a mistake now ..I have a second chance .

So over the next day or so I'm going to be thinking as to where to site everything.
pic of the whole kit tomorrow


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And here's the back of the engine where it all bolts on.
BTW... the only reason that green gaskets still on ...was so that I didnt get mixed up-confused, between inlet and exhaust ...whist installing and grinding valves....a sort of reminder.!!

A new gasket will be fitted.

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Here we go then
Here are the basic components :-

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The brass nozzles you see screwed into the alloy injector block ...are the ones you may have to bore out during the gas initialising and calibration stage ...the standard bore of these is 2.5mm.

The OMVL software will tell you, if they are too large or too small when it auto-calibrates...they are usually too small.



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The other loose brass nozzles (3.5mm bore) will come out here
on the inside of the manifold.

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Zoomed ...you can just see, that there is a hollow just above the petrol injector hole.

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On the outside this area is marked in the casting.
on the outside i will be drilling much further back then them circles ...almost on the corner at the top ...so that the injector pipes point the way of the flow........may have to do a little bit of porting on the manifold and gasket ...incase it obscures it too.

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PART TWO TOMMOROW

Mark Jones
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:23 pm

Re: Rover 420 Conversion , "The Hard Way".

Post by Mark Jones » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:18 pm

direct copy of installation i did some months back posted in another car forum...text refers to day by day as i did it .after engine rebuild,REMEMBER THIS HAS ALL BEEN DONE ...YOU WILL SEE ERRORS AND MISTAKES ALONG THE WAY THAT ARE LATER CORRECTED AND SHOWN

PART TWO



OK
I drilled for the injectors today.
It was quite a difficult job ...requiring an accuracy of within 1 degree angle and 0.5 mm positioning
Here you see the machine I used to do this job
Bridgeport BR1J milling machine.

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This is the set up on the machine ...showing me getting the machine into position ...ready.

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This is what I had to do to ensure I had it right ...the outer hole does not support the petrol injector ...and I only machined 2 mm off the main bore side....petrol injectors were just as shaky in the hole after as before ...theres a o-ring seal that does the sealing.
Here you see a two flute 12mm mill being used on plunge.

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Then ,that now flat area, was centre-drilled.

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Then onto a 4.9 mm drill for the tapping clearance.

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Then it was tapped with a 6mm spiral flute machine tap.

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After filing the burrs the new injectors were screwed in.
Here you see one petrol injector in place to show the relationship.

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This is what the injector fitted looks like from the inside ...a little bit of relieving is going to be done tomorrow ....to give you an idea of scale the hole in that LPG injector tube is 3.5 mm.

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NEXT DAY

Fitted the manifold with the solenoids/valves on today .
I tried my best to get it into the space between the plenum chamber and the inlet manifold ...no go.
Ended up putting it below ...this was as near as I could get the thing .
Longest pipe is 7.5 inches so all pipes have to be the same.

Had to spend some time making a bracket out of 4mm stainless steel sheet.....the fuel rail also bolts onto this bracket.

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From the top you can see what I'm up against ...them pipes could have been 6.5 inches long ...but this would have lead to them kinking ...unless I put springs inside of them ...will try and find some later.

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The good thing about stainless steel is you don't have to paint it ...and it comes up nice once polished.

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PART THREE TOMORROW

paulifa1
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:41 pm

Re: Rover 420 Conversion , "The Hard Way".

Post by paulifa1 » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:38 pm

I'm impressed so far :) can't wait to see the continuation!

whitetop
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:05 pm
LPG System: Romano
Car: BMW 525i Sport Auto
Location: AYR

Re: Rover 420 Conversion , "The Hard Way".

Post by whitetop » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:21 pm

Looking good.....waiting with bated breath.

Cheers

Mark Jones
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:23 pm

Re: Rover 420 Conversion , "The Hard Way".

Post by Mark Jones » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:53 pm

dirct copy of instalation i did some months backas posted in another car forum...text refers to day by day as i did it .after engine rebuild,REMEMBER THIS HAS ALL BEEN DONE ...YOU WILL SEE ERRORS AND MISTAKES ALONG THE WAY THAT ARE LATER CORRECTED AND SHOWN

PART THREE

Don't want any air leaks on this so each nozzle had hylomar daubed on its threads before being screwed in.

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The kit came with horrible type crimp clips ...the only way that I could get them to work and crimp up was with my metal shears ...good job in the end though.

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All the rest of the extra LPG wiring was put in including the vacuum unit .

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There are twelve pairs of connections to plug in and get them into a limited space, which was quite challenging.
And to get it tidy as well (ish) , was an achievement.

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This lot now can be bolted back on with a new gasket.
and the cars main wiring loom put into place.

Some screen shots of the OMVL dream software.

pictures seem to get there ends cut off ...i cant do anything about that, but to resize them small

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manufacturors promo video...quite old

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 1059055732


Yesterday i traced the lambda wiring and soldered a spur off it ...did the same for the coil for the rpm signal.

Today, I didn't feel like doing any thinking !

So I spruced up the engine bay.

Don't look bad for a ten year old car.

Stuff the scratches ...they will be just plasterd with waxoyl ...they cant be seen anyhows ...me thinks...once the batts in and the engines in
...i will go someway ...to make sure more scratches dont happen ...by masking thick plastic bags on the areas that are vunerable....before installing engine.

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Vapouriser positioning has to be done ideally so that the vapouriser is below the level of the coolant in the the header tank..
Here you see a bracket I made for the vapouriser ...before I realised I was about to make a mistake.

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This was to mount it on the bulk head about here .

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No good (TOO HIGH) ...so I removed and re-sited the fuse box...there is, enough slack in the cables.
The new position of the LPG vapouriser was decided to be here ...
a good a good four inches lower than the old position.

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A new bracket was made out of stainless

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Here you see it, been offered/ trial fitted , before having the vapouriser bolted on to it.

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Hoses were put onto the vapouriser before bracket was put into position and bolted to the bulkhead ...
that other mounting hole, will have a bolt put thru it when i can get at it later.

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Hoses :-

"A" IS the main vapour hose that will supply the injectors
"B" AND "C" are the hot water feed to the vapouriser ...these are "T'"d off the cars heater hoses.
they will be connected up , and shortened etc ...when the engine is in position.

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PART FOUR TOMMORROW

Mark Jones
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:23 pm

Re: Rover 420 Conversion , "The Hard Way".

Post by Mark Jones » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:30 pm

direct copy of installation i did some months back posted in another car forum...text refers to day by day as i did it .after engine rebuild,REMEMBER THIS HAS ALL BEEN DONE ...YOU WILL SEE ERRORS AND MISTAKES ALONG THE WAY THAT ARE LATER CORRECTED AND SHOWN

PART FOUR


Bugger .

Had to take all the gubbins off the inlet manifold today ..

As you know I painted plenum chamber .

so it was late going on .

when I did put it on ...it rocked all over the place on the inlet manifold below ...before I had chance to tighten and bolts....trial fit without gasket ...i would not have known if i had put the gasket on

Took measurements and it was warped by 0.7 mm across a diagonal run on it .


Gasket is only this thick or there abouts ...so would not have compensated for that much warp....well not with only 10 newtons pressure on the bolts.

I could not leave it like that ...if i had running problems later ...

I reckon the guy (EBAY), who I bought this spare manifold off must have used it to lift the engine out or something ..


Never thought about checking it ...as it looked OK.

The face that goes against the block is OK.

and my plenum is OK.

The manifold is now on my milling machine awaiting skimming tommorow....2 hours to set it up for this .

Two or three very light passes of a fly-cutter should do it.

All set up and cutting .
did not want to disturb the LPG pipe clips, so some of the gas stuff was rapped up in a bag and sealed.

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After the first cut it is clear where the cretin lifted the engine with the manifold.

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All finished , due to the see-saw effect of measuring with a strait edge ...only 0.3 mm had to be taken off.

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Tank Positioning
Hmmm,
Every car that I've ever owned, has its petrol tank under the boot floor.
The Rover doesnt...yippy.......because, I would have had to take it off otherwise, to get access to some of the LPG tank fixing bolts, as they would be above it.

The LPG tank has to be put in such a position that it is safe ...
..bolted to the floor by at least four strong bolts with large washers on the underside....postioned say they are spaced at all four corners of the tank frame.
There has to be is clearance for the tank....not touching any sides etc .
And leaving enough boot space to do your shopping.
Rather than take the tank in and out endlessly ... find something that is the same diameter as it.. and use this to establish if there enough clearance.

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It's important that you can get the spare wheel out !!
Getting the spare wheel out was not possible, with the frame that the tank sits on, mounted directly on the floor ,so I had to put spacers under it, so that the spare wheel could be withdrawn easily.

Spacers shown in the pics are temporary ones just to give you the idea .

Proper ones have already been made ,of the right height and with the right size hole in them.

Frame will be bolted thru the carpet ...on final fitment.

Frame and tank and filler... are second hand ones.. out of my old sierra.

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Bet you don't see, a ten year old car, that often ...with an unopened tool kit....still sealed up in the polythene...I think the last owner didn't know it was there ...because there was an extra jack and wheel brace lying loose in the boot.
The tool kit will now, just be put between the tank and the back of the seats....acccesable from inside the car ....I think ...we will have to see how things progress.

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PART FIVE TOMORROW

Mark Jones
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:23 pm

Re: Rover 420 Conversion , "The Hard Way".

Post by Mark Jones » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:51 pm

direct copy of installation i did some months back posted in another car forum...text refers to day by day as i did it .after engine rebuild,REMEMBER THIS HAS ALL BEEN DONE ...YOU WILL SEE ERRORS AND MISTAKES ALONG THE WAY THAT ARE LATER CORRECTED AND SHOWN

PART FIVE



It's slow going ..
I have to wait for someone to help me get this tank in and out ..
Waiting two days in one instance .
Here you see it in many of its temporary fits .

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One of the finished pillars the tank now rests on .
M10 bolts hold it to the floor.

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I made a new adaptor to replace the old one that came out of the sierra ...wasnt happy with the old black one ...so I turned the new improved one from a solid piece of plastic on my lathe.
The old one was designed just to vent the gas just under the boot floor ...the new one has another flexable extension piece on it, that vents the gas about 8 inches off the ground...the extension piece will be shown later.

The gas pipe comes out of the side and is sealed with silicon and the vent extension attach-es to the bottom then carries on downwards....for about 12 inches....in the pic they are shown the right way up .

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This is what you see of the new fitment in the boot ..held on by three M6 allen bolts at 120 degrees intervals...carpet will cover it and all you will see is the black tube....it's now sealed with silicone...jubilees will be adeed later ...not quite wiped it all off here.

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The 6mm copper pipe that runs from the tank to the back of the car .. I had to double flare the end.

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Clips for LPG pipe.

The one that is on the left is what I want .

The ones on the right are poxy ...and I didn't want to use them ....they are the ones that were supplied with the kit.

The one on the left is off my old sierra ...I could of taken all these off the sierra sandblasted and painted them ...but it would have taken forever and been a right bugger 'cause all my axel stands are already in use on the rover..

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Sooooooo

I pondered for a few days
...the sierra type clips I could not find anywhere.


Soooo... I made them in the end.

These should last a good few years :)

They are stainless steel about 4 mm thick ...just got to finish them off by drilling holes in them.

I took 2 hours to make them .


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PART SIX TOMORROW

Mark Jones
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:23 pm

Re: Rover 420 Conversion , "The Hard Way".

Post by Mark Jones » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:08 pm

direct copy of installation i did some months back posted in another car forum...text refers to day by day as i did it .after engine rebuild,REMEMBER THIS HAS ALL BEEN DONE ...YOU WILL SEE ERRORS AND MISTAKES ALONG THE WAY THAT ARE LATER CORRECTED AND SHOWN

PART SIX



Had a bit of a delay ..
The main pipe that I was supplied with was not long enough.
Had to wait for a longer pipe.
All's installed now.
This is a picture of underneath the boot .
You can see one of the tank frame mounting bolts in this picture. ( nuts swapped for nylocks now)
Note the coiled pipe.
This serves a few purposes
1. Expansion , contraction ,vibration
2. If the car was hit from the side, the coils would open up, letting the pipe stretch out, instead of fracturing.

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The extended vent is my idea ...as existing vents supplied with kits only exit under the boot floor....vent should be the opposite side of the car ,that the exhaust exits from.

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Clips were laid out roughly every foot ..and more of them were concentrated around the bends in the pipe, to keep it in place.


Pipe must be laid out away from moving suspension components or moving engine parts, drive shafts and MORE THAN 250MM AWAY FROM EXHAUST !!!...and clipped securely in such away,so that you don't get the self tapping bolts coming thru the carpet inside the car.



Be careful that ...where the bolt/screws that hold the clips don't screw into any wire or cables on the inside of the car.



Pipe must be kept away from high current cables such as starter motor cables.


Pipes must not be concealed in ductiings that the brake pipes run in ...


Joins in pipe are not a good idea either.


Pipe must not be mounted in wheel arches where it may be hit and wore away by a deluge of muck and stones.



Bends in pipe should be gentle curves ...no right angles ...as this may fracture or restrict the pipes.


Copper is work hardenable ....means you have only one chance to bend it ....as it becomes very stiff after that and impossible to straiten out again, to as it once was....so plan your moves in advance.


REMEMBER...rubber covering on pipe is very soft ...easily stripped off ,whilst you manoeuvring it into position or dragging it over a sharp edge .


You need to think about mounting it, so that it is impossible for it to come in contact with a speed bump as you're going over it ...so just look along the whole length of the car .....and make sure it is above any points that may touch a hump.


Also pipe has to be away from jacking points ...ever noticed that the sprog tyre fitters don't look under the car, before just pushing trolley jack underneath and jacking....if its impossible to keep it away from a jacking point then make a re-enforced tunnel for it, out of heavy gauge 2mm-plus thick steel[/b]

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Here you see the pipe as it enters the vapouriser ..again ...there is another coil.
There is roughly 12 inches coiled in each coil.
At the vapouriser end the pipe has an olive type compression fitting.

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LPG filler fitting.

First you need one of these
it's a hole saw.

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Choose the position, where you want the hole, panel must be flat ...and have some strength ...ie ..the filler nozzles at petrol stations are heavy and will weigh down and buckle a panel ...if you didn't choose a place that was unlikely to buckel...
I chose here ...because it was near the rear light cluster ...and this added some resistance to flex in the panel.
The hole could not be drilled near the petrol filler because of a panel at the back was in the way.
Other people fit them in the bumper ...means you will be squatting down on your knees when filling up ..on dirty petrol station concrete !!!

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This is the filler that mounts in the hole ...note the silicon on it ...to seal it to the panel and stop the bare metal hole rusting ...and stains running down the panel....note the rust stains from previous fitment to sierra were i didn't use silicon
Use neutral cure silicon. other wise it will attack the paint.

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This is the bit that screws onto the other side of the filler above... to hold it in the panel

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After cutting out, you end up with a nice paint swatch ...you can use in future to match up your paint . :)

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Because the filler has locating lugs in it to stop it spinning in the hole .

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You have to file out corresponding lugs in the hole you've just cut.

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The filler is pushed thru and the other Half tightened up on the back .

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You then slide onto the hydraulic LPG gas filler hose.. a rubber boot.

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The hose is bolted on and the boot secured with tie-raps ...(I haven't got the outer hose yet ...will be fitted when I get the car running.)

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Make sure the bayonet inside the filler is pointing east/west.

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Got the wrong cap ...but it will do for the time being ...right one should be flush with the rest.

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The finished look.

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PART SEVEN TOMORROW

Mark Jones
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:23 pm

Re: Rover 420 Conversion , "The Hard Way".

Post by Mark Jones » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:43 pm

direct copy of installation i did some months back posted in another car forum...text refers to day by day as i did it .after engine rebuild,REMEMBER THIS HAS ALL BEEN DONE ...YOU WILL SEE ERRORS AND MISTAKES ALONG THE WAY THAT ARE LATER CORRECTED AND SHOWN

PART SEVEN


Siting the LPG ECU


After looking for a good half hour where to mount the LPG ecu ...
I decided this was the only place it could go.
so I made a bracket up out of thick stainless ...and mounted it up.

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Half the wiring was already was done earlier and is in place for the LPG stuff .
but I have more to do ...........

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There was only one place the LPG/petrol switch could be mounted ...after a bit of fettling it went here :-

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Car now running on gas ..
After initial fuse blow because of a cheap connector going to the tank let the spades fall out of it and touch ...all is OK .
Auto-calibration by laptop .... it went thru it without a hitch ...
So car now is running on gas ... And changing over to petrol and back to gas seamlessly ..
There is a little bit (TINY AMOUNT) of hesitation ...and the odd misfire ..
this will be solved by re-gapping plugs 20 percent less and a little bit of mapping of the LPG ecu......I need someone to sit at the side of me to do this ...and it may take a couple of hours ...because I'm a novice ...
But will find someone in the next couple of days hopefully.
The car will then be superb to drive both on gas and petrol. (And I'm quite confident it will be )
I'm very pleased with the results....so far .

a few days later...


Bit of a set-back.

LPG tuning more involved than I expected .

softwares pointing out the the gas jet size is too small....hence the slight juddering and hesitation....cant be tuned because of this...


Problem number one .....cant get at gas injector rail .

I'm told injectors may have to be resized maybe a couple of times to get it right.

This means a lot of palavor....undoing and re-assembling

Inlet manifold taken off today to get at them .....

its was a long job ...

...made big mistake hoping that where the injector rail was sited would be "fit and forget."

And there is another problem that's come to light .....aparently there is a lot of dirty gas about ...the puts 'orable tarry deposits on injectors ...meaning that when this happens ...they have to be dismantled to clean ...


Because of this...

My inaccessible injector rail is now being moved to on-top of the back of the plenum ....means gas injector pipes will now be 2 - 2.5 inches longer .

more brackets to make and wiring to re-site.

Then I will have a system that I can hopefully maintain and tune a lot better.

been told since that on this system injector pipe length is not that crucial.


So will be in another few days...by the time I'm doing the final tune again....and get it running like it should do.

LPG injectors are now moved ...and everything is now get-at-able.
not as tidy as the first time ...may have to move the LPG ecu over a bit more .
but should I have problems everything is To-hand now :)

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Car now running on gas full time .

Has almost identical acceleration and performance ...

over the next few days will be doing some fuel consumption tests ...


and adding this ...Fuel filter instead of the old one

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because I heard horror stories about injectors getting clogged up with heavy ends ...a tar like substance that ruins the injectors ...

This new one will keep the tar in the bottom ....and not let it pass along the pipe to the injectors like the old one possibly could.

The filter housing and the screw on cartridge were £35....a new filter for it is needed every 10-15000 miles at a cost of £7.50

Small price to pay ...as injector rail is £120 plus vat.!!...and that's a an exchange reconditioned injector rail ...not new!!

another few days...

Bit more progress......Finally got round to making bracket for new design of LPG filter.
Took me 4 days to make ...
It's stainless steel.

And uses existing captive nuts to hold it on.

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LAST and final part tomorrow ...showing a few changes...to get it thru lpga test.

Richy_Boy
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:55 pm
Car: Alpina B3S
Location: Reading, Berks
Contact:

Re: Rover 420 Conversion , "The Hard Way".

Post by Richy_Boy » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:07 pm

:shock: where's the clapping hands icon when you need it?

That's simply awesome fabrication work Mark, FAR better quality install than my setup. I'm starting to think my car was thrown together even though it performs OK. Nice idea with the filter too, the bigger the better too I guess. The filter I replaced in my BRC system was just a paper type and stunk to high heaven for a few days after removing it, not to mention th e"pop" and brown pats moment undoing the circlip! :D

Anyway... I'm off to buy a lathe and pillar drill now.. lol

Rich
---------------------------------------------
Richy_Boy
Own: '02 Alpina B3S - 305bhp / 270ftlb
Sold: '97 Nissan 200sx S14a - 295bhp / 310ftlb

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