Nissan 200sx S14a

Introduce yourself, your car, your LPG installation and/or other modifications. Post some pics and show off! Installers: post details and pics of any unusual and high-powered conversions!
Richy_Boy
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:55 pm
Car: Alpina B3S
Location: Reading, Berks
Contact:

Nissan 200sx S14a

Postby Richy_Boy » Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:27 pm

Hey all, I thought I'd post some info on my car as some may find it interesting. Excuse the waffling, I've been typing and trying to recall events at the same time!

My car started off life as a standard motor. I bought it as a 'family car' after my son was born a few years back. At the time I had a 205 GTi, which was a hoot, yet images of being hit by another car sent chills up my spin, especially with a newborn in the back.

So, I decided to buy a Honda Prelude 2,2 VTEC (although why with a child on the way is a different matter! :D ), well, until I spotted my car in the online autotrader. I went for a viewing and snapped it up at below market value and THEN found out it had a FSH - sorted! Soon after (about a week!) I remembered how thirsty my old Nissan 200sx S13 (pop up lights) was to drive to work and back and started to consider selling it again to buy something 'normal'. My partner (God bless her) insisted I kept it as I only sold the original one due to buying a house (soon after hearing I was to become a father!).

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In short, I ended up with a thirsty car which I COULD afford to run, yet would rather pay far less month on month - who couldn't? I then got bitten by the modifying bug that had been plaguing me ever since I was 17 years old, so a few bits started getting added to the car like exhaust, wheels, suspension, a larger intercooler - etc etc not to mention having to do some maintenance on the turbo oil feed pipies and gaskets!

During all of this I started to feel the pain of pumping £50+ of fuel into the car every week, so I did some research and tried a few tricks like getting a better ECU map for the car, before finally researching LPG. Deciding it was worth doing and with a little searching I found a chap called Mike Ingram who was based in West Wycombe. He seemed to have a good reputation so I got a quote off him for his standard install. I then realised a 'normal' kit wouldn't suffice, so asked for a system capable of providing up to 300bhp as my car was then at about 260bhp (flywheel). He went away and discussed things with his supplier and suggested the BRC Sequent Fast kit would do the job.

BRC Sequent Fast ECU
BRC Max injectors
BRC Genius Max vapouriser
BRC HF filter
70L doughnut tank (where spare wheel was)

So, the car was booked in and then dropped off for work to begin. Mike kindly emailed me 'in progress' pictures which were most exciting! Being a car enthusiast, before the fitting date I asked that he tried to hide the refill nozzle behind the numberplate as I didn't want the lines of the car ruined like other I see at petrol stations. With the use of a couple of magnets - we were in business! :)

I got the car back and was impressed by the workmanship. The car seemed to go well, although power was down a bit from the Super Unleaded it usually got fed and the extra weight in the boot from the tank felt very odd, although it gave better traction in wet conditions.

After taking it home I started to notice a gas smell in my garage in the mornings, so contacted Mike who initially suggested it may be where I refilled the car. The same smell lingered for a few more days so Mike asked me to bring the car in to check it out. I did so, and he found a small leak inside the doughnut tank which was nipped up and tested. GREAT! I thought... and went home. Mike had sent over the install and product PDF documents for me to read, which was probably a mistake as I read that my system had a integrated ignition advance module. I contacted Mike about this and asked if this was connected up, to which he replied no... he said it made little difference. Knowing how crucial it was on my petrol map I began researching more and found that I could, on a rolling road potentially maximise my power output by having this tweaked a little.

Over the next few days I STILL smelt something gassy in the garage, so I called Mike back up and took the car off to see him again and mentioned about connecting up the ignition advance loom to the car. This time, a leak was found on the pipe which connected the refiller and tank, but on the tank end (from memory) but nothing happened about the advance loom. Off I went again and was enjoying the savings... until, you guessed it, it started to leak once more. This time Mike pulled out the connecting piping from the refil nozzle and remade it, making it longer and in a coil shape - which seemed to do the trick! Yippee!

I recall emailing Mike a few times about the poor MPG I had been experiencing with the car, normally about 240miles for a 70L tanks worth of fuel. I had calculated I SHOULD have been getting about 300 miles, taking into account my car did 30mpg on petrol (driven slowly) and a 15% loss yadda yadda, but Mike said this was OK. (Yes I contacted him quite a bit with questions, especially regarding mapping, ignition etc!)

I then took my car to a rolling road and was suprised to find the petrol was down on what it should have been, but the LPG power was a touch higher! (RR graphs to come!)

After this experience, during routine maintenance, I decided to clean my air flow meter (which measures the air being sucked into the car)... this broke my LPG fuelling and it spluttered and kangerood on throttle as it had suddenly started madly overfuelling! I called Mike again and took the car back for some mapping and we ragged the poor thing up and down the road weening the fuel out bit by bit. Amazingly the car just got faster and faster and by the end of it Mike had taken out around 25% of the injector timing, but didn't want to risk it running lean (quit rightly!) The now went like a bat out of hell, easily as fast as it went on petrol.

So, now with a fully working system, I turned back to squeezing a touch more power from the car and fitted larger petrol injectors (Nismo 555cc) and a h-dev ECU map to the car which was designed to work with the injectors. This, of course knocked my LPG map out, so armed with a laptop, a cable and BRC software I set about running the automated tuning procedure. When done I took the car out with the owner of H-dev who was impressed by the performance. We couldn't tell how accurate the new map was, but he listened for detonation and there was none, so it was running rich, if anything.

A month or so passed and my car club ran another rolling road event where you could do a couple of runs to see what power your car was putting out, although they said all previous LPG cars had been SERIOUSLY down on power... :cry: They kindly agreed for me to do a run on LPG and then mapped the results (LPG and petrol) over each other on a graph and BOY did the effort come good! The rolling road operators were very suprised when the LPG bhp result (on a automated map) was THE SAME as the carefully mapped petrol result! However, the torque was down 10ftlb on LPG, which was a bit dissapointing.

Results:
Petrol: 294.5bhp and 310ftlb
LPG: 294.5bhp and 300ftlb :o

The AFR suggested the LPG map went VERY rich as the turbo came on full boost (maybe caused by the MAP sensor going nuts?), then platued in the midrange and slowly leaned out from ~4700rpm until the red line at 7000rpm. You can also see the coming 'off lambda' at ~3000rpm... I'll shortly post up a picture of the torque curve 8-)

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So, this is how the car is now. I may be running a little more power due to a new air duct being fitted (the RR operator suggested it may help hit the big 300 mark) but most of my effort was spent on further upgrading the suspension and brakes so that it performed better on track.

So what's to come? Well, I've decided to not improve the car power any more as it has a nack of breaking gearboxes on race tracks now and I don't want to fork out the £1500 to fit uprated gears, so my attention will be turned to tweaking what I have got. First on my list is some improved ducting for my brakes and then second on my list is taking the car to an LPG specialist (who knows what he's doing!) to have the ignition advance hooked up (with the RPM signal so the fine tune settings can be accessed in the software) and taking the car to a rolling road for accurate mapping of both fuel and advance. From looking at the last rolling road AFR graph it would suggest LPG runs best at about 13.5:1 (where it matches petrol best). The person doing these changes is VERY likely to be Keith who's on this very forum, as Mike Ingram stopped repling to my emails after the warranty period ran out (not to mention appeared to have no experience with ignition advance) - nice! :roll:

This is the current list of modifications.. and before you say it, yes I could have bought a Porsche that might go faster, but where's the fun in that?

Engine:
K&N panel filter
Modified air box
APEX Front mount intercooler
HKS SSQV dump valve (recirculating)
3” APEX Front pipe
3” Silenced de-cat
3” Blue flame (twin 3” exits)
DANO Braided turbo oil pipe
DANO Braided turbo water pipes
NGK iridium spark plugs
Greddy Profec B (Spec II) - Lo: 15psi Hi: 17psi
Nismo 555cc Injectors
H-Dev Stage II chip
Apex’i FATT DC3 turbo timer
Walbro 255L fuel pump
BRC sequent FAST (sequential LPG system)

Handling:
APEX 6/4 coilovers
APEX rear strut brace
APEX front strut brace
APEX rear camber arms
DB subframe locking collars
Whiteline front camber bolts
Whiteline anti-roll bars (F - hard, R - hard)
Goodyear F1 tyres

Brakes:
Brembo 315mm M3 front brake discs
Ferrodo DS2500 pads (front) [DS3000 for track days]
Ferodo DS2500 pads (rear)
Goodridge braided hoses
5.1 Brake fluid
DB BMC stopper

Interior:
Quick shift
AutoGauge Oil temp, pressure and boost gauges
APEX triple carbon gauge panel

Exterior:
Nissan Skyline R33 GTR Wheels
White front indicators
White side indicators
HID headlight kit
LED sidelights

Performance:
0-62 in <5.5 seconds
Top speed: Off the clock 140+ :mrgreen:

Anyway, ere are some pictures (to come soon!) of my car, sorry for the waffling... :)

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And some videos...

Japfest '06 (Castle Combe) > http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 4&hl=en-GB
Brands Hatch '07 > http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 0&hl=en-GB
Castle Combe '07 > http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 6&hl=en-GB

Take it easy...

Rich
Last edited by Richy_Boy on Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

Mark Jones
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:23 pm

Re: Nissan 200sx S14a

Postby Mark Jones » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:55 pm

wish i could write like that ..

very good post ...
on these could you estimate a percentage improvement by the side of them .,..


Engine:
K&N panel filter.

my LPG consumption went higher (used more) and the performance up after fitting green filter...this is with leaving it alone and not tweaking LPG to suit.

I'm not after performance though ..im after more mpg :(

think my car does perform better on LPG than petrol ...


Modified air box

how is it that you modified air box if it has a normal panel filter in it ..


3” APEX Front pipe
3” Silenced de-cat
3” Blue flame (twin 3” exits)

NGK iridium spark plugs

sounds like with the amount of money that's gone into it .,...it's going to be a long long long time before the LPG conversion pays for the other mods ,,,because you got carried away :lol:


nice car .and what are the mpg figures now on LPG compared witrh petrol
all the best.mark

Richy_Boy
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:55 pm
Car: Alpina B3S
Location: Reading, Berks
Contact:

Re: Nissan 200sx S14a

Postby Richy_Boy » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:53 pm

Hey Mark :)

I used the std. airbox which uses a panel filter as I was concerned about cold air getting into the turbo. Under the bonnet get VERY hot on a run, so an normal induction kit would just be drawing in this heat - although, granted I have a huuuge intercooler to reduce the tempretures again before getting to the intake manifold. Not sure what the power gains were with this, but the original was a paper design, so I needed more flow... (it's nice to be able to wash the thing too when it gets dirty!)

Maybe your LPG use went up as you were busy listening to the induction noise with your foot on the floor? ;)

The airbox has a 'trunk' which was designed to take cold air from the front of the bonned and scoop it into the air filter (inside the box). Although this was great for a std. car, I'm running 1.2bar on full boost so it need a hell of a lot more air. I removed the elbow which was on the std. box and made (bodged) a cold pipe from in front of the engine bay, so plenty of cold air is fed directly into the airbox.

3" front pipe - awesome bit of kit. The car spools much quicker with this fitted and on the test run after fitting reached +2 psi with this alone! (I had a manual boost controller at the time). I'm not into loud exhausts and do a lot of motorway driving, so the silencer is just there to stop the 'booming' when cruising. The full exhaust system alone gave 30+ bhp I reckon, although, of course, the higher the power the more the engine needs to breathe to avoid too much back pressure and increasing EGTs. (exhaust gas temps)

The car is supposed to use Platinum plugs as recommended in the handbook, however, I decided to use Iridium due to being roughtly the same price and they give a stronger spark. I use slightly cooler running plugs too, to minimise det when running flat out. Some people think their a waste of money but they've never let me down - so why change?

My mpg figure.. well mileage is between 260 - 305 miles per tank, which is about £29 to fill (70L tank). Obviously, the more right foot, the more fuel is uses..! I have no idea what the petrol MPG is as most of the time when on petrol I'm doing about 9mpg on a race track :D I can honestly say that on the roads I never use petrol now, unless I'm between LPG garges and run out of course! :)

Anyway, thanks for the interest!

Rich
---------------------------------------------
Richy_Boy
Own: '02 Alpina B3S - 305bhp / 270ftlb
Sold: '97 Nissan 200sx S14a - 295bhp / 310ftlb


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